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Posted by Psion [send private reply] at July 04, 2002, 10:28:10 AM I have some code for testing learning groups up at:
Give it a try, and post any suggestions on improving it (as well as what actual learning groups we should have and how to run them) in this thread.
Posted by diegoeskryptic [send private reply] at July 04, 2002, 02:08:07 PM can u explain this further...
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at July 04, 2002, 02:36:31 PM Looking good. I think learning goups would be a great addition. We could get a learning group for Linux, a group for C++, group for beggining programming ect and im sure people you use them.
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at July 04, 2002, 04:10:20 PM GNU/Linux! (I know I know, you don't care...)
Posted by gian [send private reply] at July 04, 2002, 04:24:27 PM Indeed... I think that for correctness, people should attempt to refer to a GNU/Linux operating system as GNU/Linux, otherwise those who embrace correctness will take it to mean that you are referring to the Linux kernel itself.
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at July 05, 2002, 11:02:38 AM actually unknown i do care. GUN/Linux is the GNU version of linux, or as its called, debian. There are other versions remember though, so calling the other systems GNU/Linux is incorrect ;)
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at July 05, 2002, 12:26:08 PM Umm...every "Linux" distribution is really a GNU/Linux distribution. Without GNU, the Linux kernel is useless. Unless you use Pliant, which appears to not exist anymore (the site used to be at http://fullpliant.cx). So, You can't use Linux without GNU.
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at July 05, 2002, 03:15:28 PM what about the many propriotory apps out there?
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at July 05, 2002, 04:33:36 PM You don't get it do you? Not every program you run is GNU, but the OS is GNU/Linux. Why? Because in order to boot you need the GNU toolchain (the shell, dynamic linker, libc, etc). Without the GNU toolchain you can't even boot. The most important piece of the system is probably the libc, not the kernel, because without the libc, _nothing_ would run.
Posted by gian [send private reply] at July 06, 2002, 05:23:37 AM Metamorphic: Debian is not the only GNU/Linux distro out there... Debian is just the only distro (I know of) that call itself a "GNU/Linux" distro instead of a Linux distro.
http://www.gnu.org explains it all very well...
Why don't we call Windows "Kernel32.dll" OS? Because all the stuff surrounding the kernel is called "Windows", and therefore it gets it's name from that, not the kernel.
Posted by Mycroft [send private reply] at July 06, 2002, 01:16:27 PM Windows is called windows because thats what Microsoft wanted to call it. They wheren't applealing to computer nerd when they came up with Windows, they wanted to sell it to business that doesn't care what a kernel is.
GNU/Linux is a part of any Linux distro because the kernel is licensed udner the GNU GPL. Thats not to say all the programs that make a Linux distro fall under the GNU GPL though.
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at July 06, 2002, 01:26:18 PM Exacly, which means the whole system and OS(by this i mean EVERYTHING) are not always GNU/Linux. An os is not just the kernel, shel and UI. There are other apps also. In windows, there is calculator, paint, notepad, wordpad, solitare and many more that make it a WHOLE SYSTEM. Looknig at linux, take staroffice. Some linux systems come with that and that is not GNU. What about how (i think it was) th QT graphics libs. They never used to be GNU and many systems used them to display graphics. What about VMware? that runs on linix and that is not even open source. There ae loads of apps, and contrery to your belief, not all of them are GNU. Yes, there are alternatives, but the system would not be a GNU/Linux system until you replacd EVERYTHING with a GNU/Linux component.
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at July 06, 2002, 01:54:56 PM No! You have it all wrong! /me beats metamorphic with a large cluebat.
Not all of the applications on the system make up the OS. The OS consists of the kernel and the core tools and librarires needed to make the system work enough for other programs to run. GNU/Linux refers to the fact that the GNU OS with Linux as its kernel (as opposed to the Hurd, or possibly other kernels that work when you have replaced their "native" libc and OS tools with the GNU versions). E.g. without GNU vmware wouldn't run. Why? It relies on the libc to run (just like every other program in one way or another). And you can't even boot the system without bash because your init scripts are just that--shell scripts.
Posted by Mycroft [send private reply] at July 06, 2002, 07:18:20 PM Why? Isn't the whole point of a forum to have discusssions like this?
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at July 06, 2002, 07:26:24 PM If anyone wants to discuss this anymore, it would be better on the General message board...and anyway, GNU/Linux vs. Linux is one of those holy wars that will never end.
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