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Posted by regretfuldaydreamer [send private reply] at August 25, 2002, 11:54:35 AM I wanna write a windows ap but I don't know MFC, and I haven't been able to find any decent books in the bookshops or tutorials online.
Will Microsofts VJ++ compile programs written in Java into Windows applications(I don't want it to be cross platform, but for it to be fast, and self executing). This isn't a question of should I buy VJ++, I already have it(I got the whole Microsoft Visual Studio and tonnes a cool stuff for ?80 on a students licence. No one critise Microsoft products please, I just wanna know will it work.
Posted by taubz [send private reply] at August 25, 2002, 01:58:59 PM It has the ability to compile programs into EXE files. But, I believe it is just the Java class files wrapped up into a package with automatically invokes the JVM when starting. So, it would be as slow as regular Java.
Posted by Psion [send private reply] at August 25, 2002, 02:02:04 PM http://www.wxwindows.org/
Use this amply-documented cross-platform GUI library with C++ and not only will you be able to write Windows applications, but the same code will also compile for UNIX or MacOS if you ever change your mind about that!
Even better, of course, is to write your application in SML and use smlTk. =)
Posted by gian [send private reply] at August 25, 2002, 06:35:29 PM I'm going to take this change to point my finger at Psion and yell "ML Whore!!" You stand on street corners selling your body for ML.
Posted by regretfuldaydreamer [send private reply] at August 26, 2002, 11:25:11 AM Thanks. If Java won't do the trick I guess I'll just have to learn MFC.
Anyone any suggestions for books(Im not fond of online tutorials). If possible one wich is gradual in its introduction, doesn't focus too heavily on the theory untill a bit into the book and one that you can actually read without getting quite confused.
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at August 26, 2002, 02:26:18 PM /me points at the post about wxWindows
What is wrong with using wxWindows again?
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at August 26, 2002, 04:09:35 PM "What is wrong with using wxWindows again?"
Nothing, Maybe RDD just doesnt want to use it. Yes cross-platform can be good, but in the real end-user world, 90% of enterprise, desktop and workstation computing is windows. Why waist your time with something else? (im not trying to put every other OS down, just giving a realistic POV)
Posted by Psion [send private reply] at August 26, 2002, 04:14:46 PM metamorphic, wxWindows is also easier to use than any of the native OS API's it interfaces with, I believe.
Posted by regretfuldaydreamer [send private reply] at August 27, 2002, 09:44:08 AM OK Why I don't wanna use wxWindows:
***!!! I just don't !!!***
Windows isn't great but I don't care. Once I feel I can do what I want to on Windows, I'll move onto something else. As far as I know, cross platform applications run a lot slower, and since what I am making will only be used by kids (I'm making a computer version of a board game, not for commercial uses, more to show it off to freinds(I know thats a horrible reason), for a freind who absolutely loves the game, and to learn. I wated to use Java to make the networking side as easy as possible(So that people could play it online).) ... back to the kids thing ... how many kids use Linux (the odd one may use MacOS).
Now then, not meaning to be completely rude, but could someone please suggest a nice book for MFC.
Posted by Psion [send private reply] at August 27, 2002, 05:04:03 PM No, using wxWindows will not make your programs any slower. Your program is still compiled C++. There is a chance they would even be faster, as the simplified interface breaks things down abstractly and possibly implements the abstract chunks better than you would yourself.
Anyway, I don't know much about the topic, but I hope you at least see that you have no valid reason for writing Windows-only source code.
Posted by gian [send private reply] at August 27, 2002, 05:07:21 PM The nature of writing platform non-specific code is such that it will usually depend on the implementation of each package (such as wxWindows) on each platform as to how fast it will run.
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at August 28, 2002, 06:10:41 AM "metamorphic, wxWindows is also easier to use than any of the native OS API's it interfaces with, I believe. "
didnt say it wasnt easier, however (normally) simplicity means less speed.
Also, as i am doing games programming, a Q: If i use wxWindows (i run linux also so cross platform can be useful for me) and openGL, effectivly will my games recomplie with little or no problems on linux?
Posted by buzgub [send private reply] at August 28, 2002, 07:22:43 AM Assuming that you have a portable build process (ie, a standard makefile), have the right things installed in both places, and do everything in the code either portably or through wxWindows, there's no reason why you shouldn't just be able to boot into linux, go into the relevant folder, and run make.
If you want to do games, though, you would be well advised to look into SDL and Allegro.
Posted by CViper [send private reply] at August 28, 2002, 12:07:18 PM "[...] I hope you at least see that you have no valid reason for writing Windows-only source code."
One valid reason however might be that no crossplatform library (at least none that i have seen) comes anywhere near the completness of the Win32 API.
Besides there is really nothing wrong with writing platform-specific code when you know it's only going to run on that platform. (my opinion)
Posted by Neumann [send private reply] at August 28, 2002, 12:47:07 PM "One valid reason however might be that no crossplatform library (at least none that i have seen) comes anywhere near the completness of the Win32 API."
May I turn your attention to the APR lib? This library is used to port Apache to different platform and has basically everything an end-user application would need, from file handling to thread pools. It provides no GUI but Apache doesn't need that afterall.
For C++ lovers, Common C++ might do the exact same thing as APR. It's also part of the GNU project.
With wxWindows, Qt, fltk, etc and APR/Common C++, there is no real reason to write any simple applications using the Win32 API except for very singular cases (like services, device drivers or other more specific things).
Posted by taubz [send private reply] at August 28, 2002, 04:31:11 PM This thread has made me think of writing a Java AWT implementation using the wxWindows library. Two layers of platform independence!
Posted by Psion [send private reply] at August 29, 2002, 07:51:06 AM Don't worry, he's a psych major, so it's OK if he doesn't know better! ;-)
Posted by regretfuldaydreamer [send private reply] at August 30, 2002, 10:42:05 AM I think this thread got a little sidetracked, MFC. I wanna learn MFC whatever you say (but thanks for educating me in the basics of what wxWindows is). Once I have MFC learnt, which I'm gonna do, then I'll move onto wxWindows. ONe reason I wanna learn MFC is because it'd be useful career wise(Preparing to be shot by some linux fanatic), especially if I went to work for Microsoft.(I know I'm gonna get in deep shit for saying that, but according to all the UK national newspapers, Microsoft has one of the highest rates of worker satisfaction in the country, I could go into this more if I wanted to, but I'm not.). I guess no ones gonna suggest a decent MFC book then?
Posted by mrnorman [send private reply] at August 30, 2002, 02:08:05 PM Hey if you wanna work for Microsoft, more power to ya, but LINUX IS BETTER, lol. But if you just want a GUI to allow graphical interaction with a model-of-sorts (or whatever) that you've created, then I've found wxwindows to be the best choice because the exact same source code compiles correctly for several different platforms (I used to be a skeptic of wxwindows, but it does pretty much anything you need it too). I wannted to use MFC at first too, but I honestly think that learning the Windows 32-bit API is easier (and more informative) than MFC. There are a lot of good books for win32 API and MFC, just search amazon and barnes&noble for some. The link that someone put up on the quick start guides is really useful too.
Posted by regretfuldaydreamer [send private reply] at August 30, 2002, 05:55:05 PM Whats the windows 32bit API? Is that where you have to specify each callback routine?
This is my first message in seven weeks from my OWN COMPUTER.
I'm finally back off holidays and ready to get stuck into some new project. My Dad just came in and said "Is it good to be back with your freind". It is, but I also intend on getting out a lot more this year, and stop wasting a lot of time on this computer doing fuck all.
Posted by AnyoneEB [send private reply] at September 02, 2002, 10:09:38 AM "LINUX IS BETTER"
but Microsoft has a better pay check :) (I know there are exceptions of people getting paid to write [L]GPLed apps.)
Posted by regretfuldaydreamer [send private reply] at September 02, 2002, 12:32:36 PM Yup, my Dad told me one thing, its no use doing a highly paid job if your not happy, but its no use doing a job that your happy in if you don't have a good salary.
Microsoft is a mix of both.
And if I work for Microsoft, maybe I could change it from the inside out(Wishful thinking)
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