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Posted by MrSmiley [send private reply] at January 10, 2003, 11:53:20 PM Currently im thinking of venturing out of the feilds of qbasic, visual basic, C++, C, & Java. i know theres probally steps before what im about to ask, but if i may, what are the best ...(well how do i put this)... programming units out there right now?
Posted by AnyoneEB [send private reply] at January 11, 2003, 06:31:01 AM Do you mean programing languages? If so, you'll find multiple oponions on which one is best.
Posted by taubz [send private reply] at January 11, 2003, 09:35:57 AM Then I can be first and shout C#!
Posted by D_Dave [send private reply] at January 11, 2003, 12:12:02 PM And if you've never done anything before - you cant go wrong with a little HTML (in fact it helps!) then a bit of one of the basics, (QBasic i did) then after you've got a little bit of programing behind you (maybe only a night or two) choose your language. People can say what they think is best, but in the end it is up to you - I like vb, but others hate it - find one you like doing then get good, thenlearn another one...
Posted by gian [send private reply] at January 12, 2003, 02:51:38 AM I'll be glad to be the first to suggest Python as a good way to get into SML and bypass icky languages like C# or Java.
Posted by SkizZ [send private reply] at January 15, 2003, 12:10:42 PM Gian, what do you mean by "icky"? (i beleive i guess the general meaning)
MrSmiley, learning BASICs is quite more easy that Java, C/C++ so they are godd to begin, as said.
Personnaly i don't like Java because the run-time environnement (what you didn't code, but is actually loaded in memory and running at runtime) make too much for you (the garbage collector is a good example : it hides completly the memory allocation process). It make it more easy too.
If you like rather to code under window$, avoid C#, use Visual C++. It's easy and you will learn a lot. But try also to use & code for GNU !!! Pieces of code are worth it.
Posted by Psion [send private reply] at January 15, 2003, 12:43:57 PM C# and Java are "icky" because it will take you longer to develop efficient software in them than in a language like ML.
Python is generally regarded as a superior replacement for BASIC as a starting language, since it avoids much of the outdated cruft that you'll find in BASIC's.
Finally, it is ridiculous that a programmer interested in producing quality software efficiently should say that handling of routine tasks by built-in machinery is a _bad_ thing. Rather, he should try to move as much as possible into the language execution environment, stopping when this begins seriously to limit important capabilities. If you can explain what's bad about garbage collection, then we can talk, but I don't see any such reason in your last message.
(I won't even comment on the implication above that languages that make programming _harder_ are inherently _better_....)
Posted by pramod [send private reply] at January 17, 2003, 01:00:07 PM This is not comp.lang.sml.advocacy. Nobody stops you from loving SML and taking an installation disk bed with you everyday, but I don't think it needs to be pulled into every bloody post.
C++ and Java are not crap. Look at it like this, there are atleast 2 million programmers using things like C/C++/Java. There are about 25 programmers using SML for serious programming [at least that's the order of magnitude]. You guys haven't exactly started a revolution with everybody dumping their old compilers and jumping into SML.
From what I saw on the webpage, its been here since the 80's. That is a lot of time for a language to make its presence felt.
In the OpenSource world, the only factor in choosing languages is merit. If 2 million, or at least 20,000 programmers aren't dumping their C compilers and jumping in to hug sml, there's a good reason for that - they don't think it's worthwhile.
There are plenty of other languages with fancy features and so called efficient implementations - Prolog for example. I could argue that prolog is the best thing for say, electronic device/circuit simulation. PSpice and PADS are not written in Prolog.
My own, slightly philosophical, take on the sit. is that having a lot of features that are supposed to make programming easier - parameteric modules. abstract data types and so on are not the only criteria in determining a language's success/popularity. Its a lot more complex than compile time modular exception parameters, or some such shit.
Posted by Psion [send private reply] at January 17, 2003, 01:06:01 PM Settle down. I only mentioned ML once as an example from a class of languages.
ML is very popular among smart people. Most software developers are not intelligent enough and/or not open minded enough to be able to write ML code well/discover it and give it a fair try. I don't know about you, but I'm going to make my decisions on development tools and methodologies based on what I can do most efficiently with my abilities, not what Joe Average does to try to make a few bucks jumping into the "IT industry" with "profit" as his only concern between watching football games. I also think that the general audience of this web site, teen programmers, has plenty of time to start learning programming the _right_ way, developing critical thinking abilities instead of memorizing code patterns in imperative languages, so my continued emphasis is not as out of place as it would be on, say, a site for "IT professionals."
Posted by gian [send private reply] at January 17, 2003, 04:05:55 PM "Look at it like this, there are atleast 2 million programmers using things like C/C++/Java."
More than twice that number of people voted for Hitler in the German general elections. Weight of numbers means nothing. Those 25 SML programmers are the only forward thinking ones with an IQ exceeding their age.
Posted by Mike_L [send private reply] at January 17, 2003, 05:34:25 PM I thought IQ was stayed relatively constant throughout one's life. How could someone's IQ exceed their age? Or are you implying that those 25 SML programmers would have IQs above the numerical number of their years?
Sheesh, I hope my IQ is at least above 50.
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