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Starting to Program Binary.
Posted by Secret00A [send private reply] at March 04, 2003, 08:46:57 PM How do I just start Programming Binary?
Posted by Psion [send private reply] at March 04, 2003, 09:17:55 PM How about... you explain what you're asking first? =)
Posted by CodeRed [send private reply] at March 05, 2003, 11:22:22 AM You don't. Writing anything in binary would be impossible.
Posted by ItinitI [send private reply] at March 05, 2003, 01:02:13 PM Umm, not quite immpossible...but _VERY_ difficult...in fact, I don't think anyone really programmes in binary anymore [If they ever really did].
But, that's what a compiler is for...it translates your code into binary for you. (^o^)
However, you might try Assembly-- it's about the closest to Binary that humans can programme in with out insane difficulty.
Posted by regretfuldaydreamer [send private reply] at March 05, 2003, 02:13:33 PM Writing in binary is to assembly programmers, as to what assembly is to HLL programmers. I think if one could express it mathematically, and let d represent the difficulty of assembly, then d^2 would be a rough approximation of the difficulty of binary (That makes no sense at all, but who cares). I recommend you read the art of assembly, http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/Page_AoAWin/0_AoAHLA.html and get a real good understanding of machine architecture and what it involves. I certainly know the old version of the book introduced the basic theory of machine code, enough to make you recontemlate your decision.
(/me wonders if Secret00A meant programming in a compiled rather than interpreted language)
Posted by Secret00A [send private reply] at March 05, 2003, 05:05:05 PM What I want to do is just mess around with the 0's and 1's but I want to make my own OS.
Posted by regretfuldaydreamer [send private reply] at March 05, 2003, 05:26:43 PM What I want to do is just mess around with the 0's and 1's.
For a start, if you are seriously considering binary programming, you type in hex, not binary(binary would allow far too big a space for errors in typing)
secondly, in the days of binary programming, programmings were very simplistic. They had to be. I'm not certain of exact figures for those days, but I imagine in the days before assembly, computers ran at around 1hz. In fact, I think binary was used before the concept of a program stored in memory was invented. It was used in the days of plug'n'play programming (that is where you plug different wires into different sockets).
Assembly is a human readable form of binary. I don't think the use of assembly has any impact on performance over binary.
"but what I want to make is my own OS"
1) I considered this a couple of times, doing different amounts of reading, but lets face it, you're never gonna write any OS that goes beyond hello world. If you want to contribute to an OS, theres a lot of work needs to be done on linux as far as I know.
2) They say that at systems level, a good, productive programmer can code at _1_LINE_PER_DAY_(feel free to question me on this figure, I've been thinking about the lpd figure recently). It is a very slow process. Realistically I think, based on how I and just about everyone else has got on here with OS programing, you won't go far.
3)That doesn't mean you shouldn't learn about OS programming. It is always interresting to know the theory behind how your computer works.
http://www.nondot.org/sabre/os/files/Misc/vade.mecum.2.pdf - University Textbook - I've read a chapter or two, and It was quite detailed.
4)Don't feel totally put off by our lack of a self built OS
5)What languages do you already know any way?
Posted by mop [send private reply] at March 05, 2003, 06:52:10 PM I wrote `mopOS' in x86 assembly. It's only two sectors and never crashes! It doesn't do anything either, but that is beside the point...
Go with assembly, if you want to do binary programming, head to your local electronics store and start playing around with some logic gates.
Posted by Secret00A [send private reply] at March 05, 2003, 07:42:24 PM "What languages do you already know any way?"
C, C++, and I just really want to keep learning(scares self)
"you're never gonna write any OS that goes beyond hello world" Maybe but hey theres nothing lost by trying, right?
"If you want to contribute to an OS, theres a lot of work needs to be done on linux as far as I know." I knew about that but it doesn't intrest me. I just want to make my very own. :)
Posted by CodeRed [send private reply] at March 07, 2003, 02:19:04 PM Saying you want to write your own OS in assembly is like saying you want to build your own nuclear reactor using a hammer and a screw driver
Posted by gian [send private reply] at March 07, 2003, 06:45:10 PM No, there are several mini-OS projects done in x86 asm.
Posted by regretfuldaydreamer [send private reply] at March 08, 2003, 04:52:30 AM ... possibly with five or six contributors.
Posted by CViper [send private reply] at March 08, 2003, 10:28:24 AM No, I think I have seen a OS programmed mostly by a single person in x86 ASM which included a graphical interface (a quite nice one too), FAT32 access and several tools.
Must have taken quite some time though...
Posted by regretfuldaydreamer [send private reply] at March 08, 2003, 12:08:27 PM A hell of alot of time if you ask me.
Posted by split [send private reply] at March 08, 2003, 06:11:09 PM I saw that ASM OS project with the GUI. Pretty cool. It scared me though.
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at March 08, 2003, 09:54:52 PM http://menuetos.org ?
Menuet is cool. I remember using it when all it did was boot and print some stuff like "Hello." It has gotten a few more features since then (just a few :).
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