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Whats the easiest programming language learn?
Posted by Draken [send private reply] at April 06, 2003, 11:21:25 PM Hi i was wondering what is the easiest progamming language to learn for a beginner with no expierience. I have read many FAQ's and was wondering which is easier and more useful, Qbasic, Python, or Visual Basic?
Posted by stilldo [send private reply] at April 07, 2003, 12:34:30 AM i would strongly suggest python
check out www.python.org , and download the compiler
very easy to start learning, but because its object oriented, you can do a lot with it
...and visual basic is famous for teaching bad habits - avoid it like the plague
Posted by buzgub [send private reply] at April 07, 2003, 12:55:24 AM Many people here are likely to be happy to help answer reasonably intelligent questions about python.
Posted by Neumann [send private reply] at April 07, 2003, 07:35:10 AM If you said only easier, I would have recommended. Now you say "easier and more useful", then I would also say Python. Learning Python will open you the doors to more languages and *Basic will.
Posted by ItinitI [send private reply] at April 07, 2003, 04:46:13 PM Um, yeah, since you said "easiest" I'd _also_ reccomend Python.
BUT, If you get bored with interpreted langs, you might want give Pascal / Delphi a try. B/c they're compiled langs.
MOST importantly... stick with _ONE_ language for a _WHILE_. Switiching around to different languages will teach you general things, but lead to confusion.
Posted by Mike_L [send private reply] at April 07, 2003, 04:51:44 PM I recommend Scheme. There is an excellent book available online called _How_to_Design_Programs. It comes with its own scheme software that was designed specifically for the book. You can get both for free at http://www.htdp.org/
Posted by Draken [send private reply] at April 07, 2003, 04:53:27 PM Alright thanks for the advice and help. If i have any trouble I guess I know where to come. If there is anything anyone else would like to suggest or say please do so.
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at April 07, 2003, 06:03:06 PM Wow, someone other than me recommending Scheme. I was going to suggest Scheme and HTDP, but Mike_L beat me to it...anyway, if you do choose Scheme and need help I'll gladly assist you.
Posted by Neumann [send private reply] at April 07, 2003, 06:17:52 PM I'm backing up the choice of Scheme too. I think that for a beginner, choosing Scheme or Python is only a matter of taste, or a matter of flipping a coin :P
Posted by Psion [send private reply] at April 07, 2003, 07:18:51 PM And ML or Haskell for beginners with Big Sexy Brains....
Posted by stilldo [send private reply] at April 08, 2003, 02:00:08 AM i would suggest, if you're going to learn python seriously, invest in a book like Python: The complete reference
it is one of the few good $90 books on programming.
Posted by gian [send private reply] at April 08, 2003, 04:05:03 PM Considering the wealth of online tutorials for python that are of a very high standard, I don't think it is necessary to go killing trees.
Posted by ItinitI [send private reply] at April 08, 2003, 05:05:56 PM Just look on KaZaA, never know what they might be sharing...
Posted by Draken [send private reply] at April 08, 2003, 06:25:29 PM Well after asking a few poeple I guess i'll go with python but alot of people say i should learn something that has more potential and that I could explore and make use of later on when I'd get to the more advanced features. So I was wondering if i should just go and learn Visual basic Java or some other language. Because i really dont want to learn a language that i find out later on didnt really help me or is really usefull.
Posted by mop [send private reply] at April 08, 2003, 06:27:35 PM If you're going to start off learning java, you might as well start off learning C++
Posted by Neumann [send private reply] at April 08, 2003, 07:03:55 PM Learn C++ so that you'll know what you shouldn't use.
No you should stay from C++ for as long as you can. Java is better easier and almost as featurefull as C++ for OO programming. After learning Java, learning C++ will be alot easier if you need it.
Posted by Kruptos [send private reply] at April 08, 2003, 11:04:29 PM Starting with C++ isn't a bad idea just as long as you stick with the basics and don't try to jump into Object Oriented programming at first. There are numerous excellent C/C++ tutorials online as well as many explaining the fundamental concepts behind computer programming. Any half way decent tutorial should get you started.
Also, as a side note-- In general, C++'s stringent rules (such as encapsulating blocks in brackets, case restrictions, syntaxes, etc.) make for good programming habits later on, and the more complicated the program the more important good programming habits are (this is certainly something useful for later on).
Just my 2 cents.
Posted by mop [send private reply] at April 08, 2003, 11:08:03 PM yes... but it is obviously not the easiest language to learn.
Go with python!
Posted by gian [send private reply] at April 08, 2003, 11:51:46 PM Nor is it necessary to go around stealing books when plenty are available freely!
Posted by buzgub [send private reply] at April 09, 2003, 01:58:09 AM python is as useful as visual basic - see bittorrent, zope and twistedmatrix for examples of cool stuff in python.
Posted by Psion [send private reply] at April 09, 2003, 08:21:12 AM Krutpos, I wouldn't characterize C++ as having stringent rules when it allows you to write programs that crash. Java has _much_ more "stringent rules" to my mind, and it's clear that you've never used ML or Haskell if you call C++ "stringent." =) I won't comment on your first point, but your second point is complete fluff.
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at April 09, 2003, 09:37:45 AM C++ is bad. Stay away from it. Yes, I do maintain an 8000 line IRC bot written in C++ (extensible using Scheme...), but it is not a language I like to use (you go and rewrite that amount of working code. If I had started the project, I wouldn't have used C++ myself). C++ will simply confuse a new programmer with a lot of syntax they need to learn. In the AP curriculum, an entire semester is taken in Computer Science just to learn the syntax of C++ and not do any real theory! (at least when I took it two years ago, now they use Java instead of C++ but it appears to be the same).
I think that Scheme or Python would be a good idea, with a tendency to lean towards Scheme because it was written for the purpose of teaching a programming course to non-cs students (SICP was meant for engineering students). Unless you use a dialect like Guile you can't do much, but when you are learning concepts it helps not to have to worry about stuff like memory management. Python is also perfectly acceptable if you don't want to deal with all the parenthesis :)
Posted by ItinitI [send private reply] at April 09, 2003, 04:05:15 PM If you're going for usefulness... Give C a try. It's _very_ useful, a multi purpose language, and if you are planning any kinda long term thing in programming you'll be learning C.
Some learnign resources for C:
-GNU C Tutorial [Introduction for C, also tells how to use compiler GCC, ect] http://crasseux.com/books/
-The C Programming Language aka K&R [This book is written by the creators of C, and is not the best for absolute beginners, but good for intermediate] Look on KaZaA for the PDF file, or read online at: http://www.pseudorandom.org/kandr/
Posted by ItinitI [send private reply] at April 09, 2003, 04:05:53 PM Well, here's a crap load of programming books online:
Posted by Neumann [send private reply] at April 09, 2003, 04:14:24 PM This discussion may go on endlessly...
I do not recommend C for newcomer because it's get in the way too easily. I especially dislike his string handling facilities and the way it allow programmers to compile programme that will crash.
Posted by Mike_L [send private reply] at April 09, 2003, 11:19:48 PM Draken, the question you have to ask yourself is: Do you want to learn how to program? If the answer is yes, then you should start by learning the concepts of good programming. For this you should use a language that is good for teaching programming. After you have the main concepts and skills down, then you can move on to a more tedious language, like C.
If you want to just mess around then go ahead and jump right into C. But be warned that without learning the fundamental programming skills, you will waste a LOT of time before becoming a competent programmer. I did this and it took me about 5 years to get really comfortable with C. There are still some concepts that I am just now learning.
Start with Scheme and HTDP, and then move on to more popular things.
Posted by Draken [send private reply] at April 10, 2003, 11:19:41 PM Well thanks for all the input, and help. I decided to go with Python (which I had started 3 days ago) because it seemed like the ideal lagnuage for a beginner like me, and yes Mike_L I do want to program. So thanks for all the links people because they can come in handy when I want to move on to something else. I'm sure with a nice group of forumers like you people if I have any trouble with this you guys could help. If there is anything else you want to say please do. :)
Posted by diegoeskryptic [send private reply] at April 11, 2003, 10:21:58 AM @Draken... I'm just starting to learning Python myself (about a month now). In my opinion, the most comprehensible source to start studying from is entitled "How to think like a computer scientist". Its in the beginners section at www.Python.org Maybe we can help each other out sometimes?
Posted by Draken [send private reply] at April 11, 2003, 05:03:47 PM Alright i'll check it out ive been using a non-programmers tutorial for python(http://www.honors.montana.edu/~jjc/easytut/easytut/) Well you probably know more then me if you been learning it for a month, but sure we can help each other out. You got msn or IRC?
Posted by diegoeskryptic [send private reply] at April 11, 2003, 05:17:39 PM email@example.com I am about to add you as a buddy now...
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