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Programming The Impossible
Posted by IceKool [send private reply] at April 14, 2002, 06:15:34 PM I know I am going a little bit far with what I think can be done but I know it would be a sweet program to make. I am thinking about making a program that is like a firewall it stands out from the box it is protecting (In this case a *nix system) but instead of all the gay shit a firewall does this program just has a proxy killer in it and some basic code to reply packet sends. U set it for a port and then run it if someone sends over 65500 size packets to that certain port the program will run a proxy killer get the real IP of the sender and send the packets back as a auto function and that is all it does so that it does not create a DoS attack on your system. The person will become lagged cause the packets are now sending back to his computer and slowing his connection making him terminate the DoS attack. My question is should I make this in multi code scripts and link them together some way or write one big ugly bunch of source code like gnome and hope it works out? Any other tips would be great.
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at April 14, 2002, 06:20:27 PM so you want to respond to a DoS attack by sending a DoS attack back? and then this overhead will make their attack stop?
Posted by IceKool [send private reply] at April 14, 2002, 06:29:02 PM Yeah it is kind of like that. As you probably know when someone sends a DoS attack it can be from a *nix box they just owned by ./ing (laughs at that shit)or by sending it through a proxy like hiding there IP. I do not want this program to Crash some poor *nix box because I will be making the code send fast and without taking hardly any system power. I want to get the person DoSing and I need some sample code or some ideas to make it like that or for it to have some A.I (Aritifical Inteligence) thing so it can see. This shit is aleady confusing me lol.
Posted by IceKool [send private reply] at April 14, 2002, 06:30:18 PM The problem with this code is that it takes after a firewall so it will probably be vuln to portaling and maybe if to much shit is sent DoS attacks it self.
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at April 14, 2002, 07:27:55 PM Well, im no network engineer, but, think of it this way: you want something thats always running in the background which can detect if a port is in use and what IP addy is using that port. then if a perticular port is being attacked send many many packets. Maybe you should consider writing a module for apache? that way it will always be running along with the server and im sure apache have in-built variables to handle IP address and such. it would make it much easier
Posted by IceKool [send private reply] at April 14, 2002, 09:31:01 PM Thank you. That should also lessen up on the coding. You use msn instant or you one of the hates I use to be that dispises all things msn,microsoft. Email is firstname.lastname@example.org if you wanna add me.
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at April 15, 2002, 05:15:58 AM MS are not a bad company, they just produce bad software. All my tools are GNU. GIMP, DEVC++, StarOffice plus a few more. only MS product i activley use is win because my parents won't let me migrate to linux.
Posted by gian [send private reply] at April 16, 2002, 12:51:35 AM There are some Microsoft apps I really don't mind. If there is some app I don't like, I just don't use it instead of whinging about it or MS bashing.
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at April 16, 2002, 07:52:28 AM Im not bashing them, i said they make bad software. I also can say that GNU software is FAR less buggy which is the main reason i use it. So Gian, keep your 'whinging' to yourself.
Posted by taubz [send private reply] at April 16, 2002, 01:52:03 PM MS has some very good apps, such as the Microsoft Office family, Visual Basic and J++ (a far as the IDEs go)... And Internet Explorer. I have never seen an open source equivelant to any of those that is as good.
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at April 16, 2002, 02:31:22 PM yes the IDE's are good, however, the compilers are not. IE however is extreamly buggy. many problems in windows originate thru IE. The office family is ok. They do use lots of HD space and RAM and also tend not to be 100% stable under ME. What is worse about office is the closed-format .doc format (business not software) that means that everyone must use office. Some software have managed to read the format though
Posted by IceKool [send private reply] at April 16, 2002, 06:22:22 PM Here I am gonna make a new post on MicroSoft Disscussions
Posted by buzgub [send private reply] at April 17, 2002, 01:13:13 AM As to the original post, there's not really anything impossible about it. It's a packet filter and DoS tool all rolled into one. Both of those are perfectly possible; why not the combination?
Posted by IceKool [send private reply] at April 17, 2002, 01:26:32 PM I think that is also a good idea. I was just kidding about the impossiblet thing.
Posted by AngelOD [send private reply] at April 17, 2002, 02:53:10 PM Well personally I'm curious about what the "gay shit a firewall does" is? I mean, sure it has features, but the thought that these features should have a gender and a sexuality, or just a personality, seems kinda silly to me.
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at April 17, 2002, 03:46:42 PM and if they do have a sexuallity, how can you tell its gay?
Posted by miststlkr [send private reply] at April 17, 2002, 04:58:07 PM and if it is gay, who are you to "out" it like that!?!? ;-)
Posted by CodeRed [send private reply] at April 17, 2002, 07:05:17 PM Keep it in your pants overdose...
Posted by buzgub [send private reply] at April 18, 2002, 01:36:41 AM Anyway, bombing people with rubbish if they try to hack you is pretty stupid. Why not just write a program that read the firewall logs and fired off an email to the relevant "abuse" address?
Posted by AngelOD [send private reply] at April 18, 2002, 03:00:51 AM Mister CHollman. If you can't figure out my name, don't try, and if you can't respond with anything intelligent, don't try.
I really don't want this to turn into a flamewar/fight, but if you really want to go through this again, Hollman, then okay, we can..
Posted by vikram_1982 [send private reply] at April 18, 2002, 06:09:36 AM Wo, another hate message for Codered by AngelOD
Posted by AngelOD [send private reply] at April 18, 2002, 07:33:23 AM *smiles* Oh I'd like to see where that 'hate message' is. I wrote a reply in the same tone as he wrote to me. No need to be hateful, when you can be honest. :)
Posted by vikram_1982 [send private reply] at April 18, 2002, 11:04:16 AM oops, u misunderstood the word 'another'. I was referring to the messages posted by other users . Generally Gian and Codered, dont seem to get along very well. I was just referring to that.
Posted by AngelOD [send private reply] at April 18, 2002, 01:10:14 PM It used to mean 'Of Death', but that was a bit too lame, so if it has to mean something, it's 'Of Darkness' because it's also used for one of my roleplaying characters.
Other than that, it means nothing at all.
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at April 18, 2002, 08:06:13 PM to taubz:
You say there are no replacements for several MS programs
that are Free Software. You are mistaken...
For Visual Basic, there exists GNOME Basic
( http://www.gnome.org/projects/gb/ ) which looks like it
works fairly well. Of course, there are many other compilers
for other langauges as well (not much of an excuse if you
want to use VB and only VB).
As for an office suite, http://openoffice.org . It works
great for me. The only problem is the lack of clipart and
templates, but I never used those anyway. If you want those,
StarOffice 6 will be something like 30 or 50 bucks and have
a large number of fonts, clipart, and templates. 50 dollars
is a lot less than however much Office is today.
For IE, there is Konqueror. Version 3 that was just released
with KDE 3 rocks. It supports all of CSS, and almost all of
CSS 2. It has support for all of HTML 4 and xhtml 1.0/1.1.
available. It can also use netscape plugins! And, if you install
a JDK, you can use java applets (simple as apt-get install
kaffe for me).
And for J++, I don't know since I haven't used it. But if
you want something that looks and feels almost exactly
the same as VisualC++, you can get KDE Studio from theKompany.
If you pay 30 bucks (I think, look on theKompany.com for the actual price)
you can get KDE Studio Gold which is supposed to be better. And,
of course, there is EMACS, which is extremely customizable.
ELISP is easy to learn and you can make EMACS do whatever you
want. Hell, I could be browsing this page using EMACS-W3M
(EMACS-W3 doesn't work because it broke with EMACS21, and
EMACS-W3M is better because it is based on W3M, a decent text
based browser...my only complaint is the lack of images).
Of course, for anything that there isn't a Free Software
replacement for, you can always write it yourself.
Posted by CodeRed [send private reply] at April 18, 2002, 08:34:54 PM How about 3D Studio Max? For an office app I would suggest star office
Posted by taubz [send private reply] at April 18, 2002, 11:28:23 PM Emacs is hardly an open source equivelant to VisualStudio! Clearly there are open source programs that have the same function as MS apps, but in my experience the MS apps have been better.
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at April 19, 2002, 08:18:57 AM I wasn't saying the emacs was a replacement for Visual Studio, I was saying that KDE Studio is ( http://www.thekompany.com/products/ksg/?PHPSESSID=870d17ccb3ec9cfab9e09cc9788ab4... )
was a good replacement. It looked exactly the same as VisualC++
to me (of course, it may work a bit differently since I only
used VisualC++ for a few months in Computer Science 4).
Emacs can be used to replace visual studio if you want. Once
you understand Emacs, you can make it do almost anything you want it to. The only limitation is the fact that it is based around the text buffer, so you really can't do graphics. You
can do semi-graphical stuff using the widget package, and xemacs-gtk lets you use gtk+ widgets from XEmacs. Still,
Emacs is much more configurable than any Microsoft product.
Sometimes a pretty interface isn't worth giving up the flexibility of Emacs (Emacs isn't a text editor; it is a lispsystem that just happens to have a text editor built in).
As a replacement for 3d studio max, I don't know. I have
precision 3d installed on my machine (I must have selected it while reinstalling Debian after my system was b0rked), but haven't really played with it much. Since I don't know about 3d graphics, I can't really say what would be a good replacement. Precision3d and PrettyPoly both look like they could do a good job, but not as industrial strength as 3D studio MAX or blender.
Posted by jay_dee [send private reply] at April 26, 2002, 05:46:44 PM I agree.. if you are willing to put in the time it takes to get a understanding of how Emacs and other Linux programs work and your not scared to mess around with them a bit they can really kick @$$...but soo far i haven't found any thing open source that was better the VB..but thats why i have a dual boot....get the best of both..
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at April 27, 2002, 03:50:29 PM "but soo far i haven't found any thing open source that was better the VB..but thats why i have a dual boot."
VB is NOT good. VB may be an extreamly easy lang to learn and use, but its definatly not a good lang. its slow and very bulky. The only thing its good for is RAD, and even for that there are better alternatives
Posted by taubz [send private reply] at April 27, 2002, 04:31:33 PM There are many things good about VB, including the IDE, the number of pre-made components available, and the ease of making and inter-op'ing with COM components.
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at April 27, 2002, 07:21:56 PM Bah, there are also thousands of "pre-made" C libraries. And you don't
have to use COM---you can use CORBA or KParts for object communication.
And learning Emacs isn't hard...it is self documenting.
Posted by CodeRed [send private reply] at April 27, 2002, 07:23:48 PM I like visual studio, I haven't seen anything under the GPL that even comes close
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at April 27, 2002, 07:27:28 PM codered...KDE studio? Emacs is more powerful once you get used to it anyway.
Write a web browser that is embedded in Visual Studio and then we'll talk.
Posted by CodeRed [send private reply] at April 27, 2002, 07:30:02 PM who the hell needs a web browser in their IDE?
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at April 27, 2002, 07:34:08 PM My point is the Emacs is much more than an IDE. Yes, it has several
IDE-like components...but it can do anything (even make coffee with
the elisp X10 bindings...I'm not kidding)
Posted by Psion [send private reply] at April 27, 2002, 07:38:28 PM Actually, I think IE _is_ embedded in Visual Studio, and is the core of the "help" engine.
Posted by metamorphic [send private reply] at April 28, 2002, 08:21:52 AM IE is also practically embedded in windows. Another reason why i dont like it. I use Mozilla. Why should i have to IE when i dont use it? Stupid MS
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at April 28, 2002, 01:54:47 PM Does Visual Studio have an embedded extension language? If IE was written using it
then it counts, otherwise it doesn't. Write my a mail reader for Visual Studio then...
(there are several nice ones for emacs written in elisp).
The point is, Emacs is a lisp system that has a large number of pre-existing functions
that make it well suited for program development. I use it to write papers
(using AUC-TeX mode) too, a large number of people read their email in Emacs.
I can embed a shell in Emacs too, so I can really run anything from Emacs.
Posted by CodeRed [send private reply] at April 28, 2002, 02:22:25 PM Yeah, my microwave has a tire preassure gauge on it too. My point is who the hell cares, these features are not even related to programming, why are they imbedded in an IDE?
Posted by infryq [send private reply] at April 28, 2002, 02:32:35 PM Emacs is not an IDE per se. It's more of a general application with a wide(_wide_) variety of features... Whether this is a bad thing or a useful thing is up to personal opinion.
Posted by CodeRed [send private reply] at April 28, 2002, 02:41:25 PM Yeah, I know I'd love to load a program that used 200mb of RAM to write a paper, or program, or spread sheet, or browse the web. There is a reason that programs focus on specific things, and thats so that they don't use a huge amount of system resources.
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at April 30, 2002, 05:36:10 PM Emacs doesn't use too much ram..ps says it is using about 10MB of ram, with 7MB resident, plus 2MB more for the Guile Scheme interaction channel, but most people don't run that (seeing as it is part of Guile not Emacs). Seeing how I have 384MB of ram, emacs using 10MB of it is nothing. I bet that visual studio uses way more ram too.
Posted by CodeRed [send private reply] at April 30, 2002, 06:19:42 PM yeah, I have 512mb, fine, emacs is cool, but I'm still going to use VC++
Posted by AngelOD [send private reply] at April 30, 2002, 06:47:21 PM Hmm.. I've used Emacs, and I must admit that I wasn't impressed at all. Took it for a testdrive for about a week, and the only thing I found it useful for was sending emails from, and even then, there are programs I like better for that.. Like Outlook (assuming you buy proper AntiVirus software), or Foxmail, or whatever. :)
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at May 01, 2002, 08:53:00 AM A week isn't nearly enough time to experiment with Emacs. Try using it for two years. You really unlock its power after you learn Emacs-Lisp because then you can do anything you want (yes, you _can_ display images and play sounds with emacs21). If I really wanted to hurt myself I could probably write a mp3 decoder in elisp :). Try reading the Emacs manual and lisp tutorial, they contain a large number of things that you won't find just by using it for a week. I really like stuff like the ability to add ChangeLog entries by hitting two keys (it goes into your ChangeLog, adds an entry with the data and filename you are editing, as per GNU coding standards...really helpful), make your project by running another command, check a new file into cvs / update a file in cvs with a few simple keypresses...the list goes on forever. Emacs can really make your life a lot easier if you learn how to use it.
Posted by AngelOD [send private reply] at May 02, 2002, 02:29:56 PM Hmm, let's see.. Spending a couple of days getting comfortable with Visual Studio, or spend a couple of *years* getting comfortable with Emacs.. Which one do you think wastes most money in the end?
That's correct! 2 years on Emacs will cost me a *LOT*.
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at May 02, 2002, 03:42:56 PM You can learn the features of Emacs that correspond to what Visual Studio gives you in a few hours or days (yes, there is actually a project management package...I forgot where it was). But, when you want to use Emacs for more things (word processing, email, writing programs (in elisp), etc) then you need to spend about as much time as you would learning those programs too. Emacs fits very well with UNIX: it is a simple programs (nothing more than a Lisp system with a highly optimized text widget) that can be extended to do just about everything (remember the coffee ...) by writing new functions that are loaded into the list system, each to perform a specific task. This ends up making Emacs extremely flexible, meaning _yes_ it will take more time to learn than Visual Studio, but you can do so much more with it.
So no, you do not lose money when using Emacs, only Visual Studio (you can't compete on the starting price--$0, and learning enough of Emacs to replace VS takes about the same amount of time so...).
Posted by AngelOD [send private reply] at May 03, 2002, 06:11:11 AM Heh, well I would indeed lose money on it, seeing I'm not paying anything for my development tools (no I do not crack them). My boss pays for the tools I use, so if I have to learn a new system, no matter the price, I'll *still* lose money.
Posted by AnyoneEB [send private reply] at May 08, 2002, 05:20:25 AM For Java I used to use J++ (I didn't pay for it of course, I got it when I learned Java and it somehow never came off). Recently (aoub t 3 OS's ago... :)) it stopped working. I found a much better IDE called Eclipse, it's open-source, free, and has more features! http://eclipse.org/
Posted by unknown_lamer [send private reply] at May 08, 2002, 09:16:32 AM You may also want to check out JDE (Java Development Environment) a supposedly very nice Java IDE written for emacs.
Posted by AngelOD [send private reply] at May 08, 2002, 04:21:27 PM Umm, not to sound all too bitchy and all here, but am I right when I assume that you expect everyone to just drop their current development tools, in order to switch to another system that *you* prefer, unknown_lamer?
Posted by Psion [send private reply] at May 08, 2002, 06:04:07 PM I believe this thread has outlived its usefulness. If you have something to say, please start a new one.
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