Just trowing in an idea.

RedX

what like the obfuscated C/perl/whatever contests? Starting one, finding one, joining one? Or one like macHack, ie whatever you can come up with in 72 hours given unlimited caffeine and pizza... Or rather, all of the above...

programming constests involving problems that need to be solved and requirements or restrictions... then set a date for it... maybe have different levels so less experienced programmers can compete against one another, and ones for experienced programmers so they can learn from each other... what you guys think?

That's a great idea ... perhaps along the lines of the USACO contests (except please, no cows :) That would also be an excellent way to introduce algorithm techniques and types to those who wish to learn how to make them, but need easier problems than what is offered by USACO's training site (which is VERY excellent, btw, probably the best interactive programming site I've ever seen). Might be beneficial for TPU ... we could even have message boards discussing possible solutions, how different people did it, what the technique is called in the world of algorithms, etc.

Mike [mnansgar@hotmail.com]

I think the successful contests are generally those where the winner is picked based on shiniest result, ala make the best game, not "solve this (basically) math problem" :-)

Why not a contest ala "make a calculator (or any other common program)" and reward on creativity. Because the required program doesn't require too much know-how, there would be more room for creative people. This way even a newbie has a chance to win.

RedX

I disagree with Psion ... and the USACO contests are not "(basically) math problems"! Instead, they are an invaluable tool for learning and practicing algorithms ...

I highly recommend that you sign up at http://ace.delos.com/usacogate for their training program for perhaps the best free interactive programming program on the web! The problems are *very* challenging in the competitions (and even several of the training problems), and throughout the world participants are very competitive ... it really is a great program and the contests are very successful.

Mike [mnansgar@hotmail.com]

Still a creative contest can be fun. I once read about someone who had to write a calculator program for school, and wrote it to use roman numerals.

RedX

Hey, if you guys want a contest, check out http://www.topcoder.com/
There's a contest tonight, July 2. I believe you can win $300 if you do well enough, and then do the same in other contests, which they hold every few days.

Well, I won the $300. Everyone starts out in the easy division, so you generally get $$$ just for submitting 1 working program. :-) If you don't suck, you'll be in the normal one the next time. Anyway, if you are 18+ years old in the USA, then give it a try on Thursday, the next tournament.

* Gian appluads Psion's infinite skill and grace... ooooooh.

hey guys... the only problem is they only offer Java don't they??? i don't know java.. i'm only beggining perl... what should i do???

You should learn Java. It is a really neat language, and it's very useful in a myriad of situations.

Well duh :P

Java, the solution to everything. At least that was said some time ago. About the same time they told the world that the next generation refrigerators will be connected to Internet. (I still wonder why someone wants to put his fridge online. You still have to move fysicaly to it. And I don't think many other people will be intrested in the amount of milk you have left.)

RedX

Sure they would. If you're running low on milk, they can advise you/automatically have some delivered, if you've selected that, etc.

tell me this... why would you want to stand up at your fridge when you could be getting delicious food from it and sitting down infront of your PC or TV and eating??? why don't we start putting the net on toasters and how about on BREAD!! so we can browse the web while we are eating a piece of toast!!! jesus must have been ashamed someone thought of an idea like that.

I saw this thing the other day about a java based toaster that went online and got the latest forecast, and burnt the appropriate symbol onto the toast... bizzare, huh?

hmmmm... ok, well, some people can't think straight can they!!?? glad the people here aint that bad... or are you.......

I've read about an university where they had small robots who had to "survive" on their own. They had their own space with a power source, and they had to cooperate to get the power they needed. Normaly they would only reload when their batteries were low, howerever the people there discovered that those robot learned to lie. They wanted to reload even if their batteries were almost full. Image what will happen when your fridge learns the same thing. Maybe now is a good time to start thinking what you'll do with 100L milk (daily).

RedX

... don't be stupid.

a robot could only learn how to lie if the artificial intelligence it had been given lended itself to learning how to lie --- computers can't do anything if humans don't program them to.

sphinX: That's what they want you to think... the matrix has you....

Sphinx: Never heard of Artificial Neural networks? I'm not going to explain it, because I lazy today. Take a look at http://home.zonnet.nl/bvandam/ for some basic explanation about this.

RedX

ah, but even a neural network is given its ability to learn by the human(s) that programmed it --- it's not like it was somehow able to think of its own accord, it was programmed to via a system of *dynamic* responses....and of course all artificial intelligence systems have some limitations...but who knows how long that will be...........

sphinX, the reason your initial statement is invalid is because the robots would not actually be "lying". They would be exhibiting a randomly evolved behavior that you might interpret as "lying". There is no need for a programmer to specifically build this capability in.

A ANN has a series of inputs and a series of outputs. Any kind of output that's indentified as "correct" or working is learned by it. Those robots were initialy programmed to reload when there batteries were near empty. However by trying to find new solutions they actually beat there original program. These networks try randomly new solutions and doing so can find any hole left in their software.
My point is that those refrigerators would need to learn your livepatterns (how much milk you drink, for example). A smal bug could allow it to learn bad things. I don't mean it's going to hunt you down and eat you, I think it's more like getting a 4-year supply of milk delivered or something.
Those things could make 12 year old hackers obsolete.

RedX

ok...i stand corrected :-)