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Posted by khofo400 [send private reply] at July 08, 2003, 01:25:51 PM I WANT TO DOWNLOOD THE FRONT PAGE FROM THE INTERNET
CAN U TEEL ME WICH SIT?
Posted by Neumann [send private reply] at July 08, 2003, 01:39:15 PM ... anyone need a better reason to stop using the forums now? ;D
Posted by ItinitI [send private reply] at July 08, 2003, 01:43:17 PM lol whats to stop someone from making a page entirly dedicated to warez on wiki?
Posted by Kruptos [send private reply] at July 08, 2003, 09:10:39 PM I like the idea of the Wiki, but what I'm wondering is whats to stop some idiot from going through and erasing everyone's posts just because they're disturbed? The sad truth is that there a lot of people out there who, I'm sure, would do just that given the chance. It seems like anything which functions anything like an internet forum--such as the Wiki--is bound to be in for trouble if its founded on the principles of trusting people not to screw it up, but perhaps I just don't understand the nature of the Wiki.
Posted by ItinitI [send private reply] at July 08, 2003, 10:11:25 PM Well, back ups are kept of the pages I do believe...but still it would be quite tiresome if say, a wiki came under attack, to continueally re-place the erased page with the back ups.
Posted by buzgub [send private reply] at July 08, 2003, 10:22:06 PM Wikis usually work because there are enough good people to thwart the bad people, making the malicious folk's efforts a waste of time.
Posted by Neumann [send private reply] at July 08, 2003, 10:22:55 PM Three easy to describe reasons:
- Most Wiki software (in our case: MoinMoin), keeps a history of all versions of the pages on the server. If somebody did a radical change he shouldn't have done, anyone can rollback to the last good version of the page that was edited. MoinMoin is currently set so it's impossible to non-admin to erase pages. It's also possible to place a ban on IP addresses we don't want on the site.
- Defacing a wiki is no challenge at all. There is basically a big link on each page that says 'click here to deface this page'. That makes wikis a very unlikely target for a cracker looking to show off its l33t skills. At best, you will see something like "This was the easiest hack I've ever done", that will quickly be erased by the first passing editor.
- Wikis could not work on mainstream sites (Yahoo, MSN or things like that) the pressure of more or less well-intentioned people would just be too high. In that sense, limited visibility and a bit of unintuitiveness plays in favor of wikis. There is less playful preteens and teens to cope with and the people left contributing are usually well-informed and well-intentioned.
Posted by RedX [send private reply] at July 09, 2003, 08:00:10 AM "It's also possible to place a ban on IP addresses we don't want on the site."
Aaargh! I hate that. Once in a while I can't get on Slashdot because one (or more) IP adresses my provider owns, are blocked. Dynamic IP adresses are a pain in the <some more polite word than "ass">
Aren't there better systems than simply blocking an IP?
Posted by Neumann [send private reply] at July 09, 2003, 08:09:14 AM As far as HTTP and Wikis are concerned, I don't see any other way to block access to supremely annoying intruders. Note that I just stated that to say it's possible in some wiki software but i don't think we will ever need to get to that.
In fact, I'm not even sure it's possible in MoinMoin :D I supposed it was because OddMuse supports it.
Posted by Psion [send private reply] at July 09, 2003, 10:22:28 AM I'm sure Apache supports it, which means we can apply such a policy to anything that runs on the web.
Posted by Kruptos [send private reply] at July 10, 2003, 11:31:45 AM Yes, and you could use a firewall as well, but having to block IPs seems like a less than enjoyable activity--certainly not something I would want to have to do in order to deal with people who are being pests. I do however agree that given the context of the Hprog Wiki, and the type of people who are most likely to use it, the probability that there will be much trouble with idiots/defacers is low. Still, I have my doubts about the Wiki.
Posted by Neumann [send private reply] at July 10, 2003, 12:02:25 PM To kruptos:
I just raised the possibility that we could ban some people from using the wiki, not that it was a good thing because it's not. Anyway, pests will probably get bored to see that everything they break gets rolled back in working order by wiki users.
When I first tried the wiki, I was greatly enthusiastic about how easy it was to add content but I had doubts about how efficient it was for communicating vs. this forum. The more I started using the wiki, the more those doubt faded away. I'm now 100% sure that a wiki is the best kind of website HProg can use because of its awesome flexibility: it can mostly do the job of a forum while accumulating informational content and you can have a forum-like discussion beside content that was put there by somebody. So I suggest you start asking question on the wiki instead of the forum and it may help dissipate your doubts.
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