Just as a passing thought from the hacking hotmail thread. How many people here think 'hacker' is a term worth fighting for (in the sence that its incorrectlt used by the media) and why/why not?

Personally i'm mid way. I see it as somthing that should still mean what it originally meant, but with almost everyone using it in a negative way, i think that it is on the brink of being a lost cause.

Yes I think it's time for an insurrection. We'll take our term back from those evil journalists.
We versus everybody else. They don't stand a chance. expecialy with our secret weapon: the cream pie. The same that was used against Bill Gates on his last visit here.

RedX

It's just a word. Assemblages of letters aren't worth fighting over.

- taubz

Its worth fighting for IMHO.

"It's just a word. Assemblages of letters aren't worth fighting over. "

Companies and business's don't seem to think thats true. If fact they think its so important that a product cannot have a name like an existing product becase the arrangment of there letters is so valuble to them.

I never said I agreed with businesses....

I think its worth fighting for, they have ripped a decades old term out of its original meaning and pasted it on a person who is a 13 year old who sits on his computer doing nothing all day or a 31 year fat guy who lives in his parents basement, also doing nothing all day. It maybe just a word but its an important word.

To clarify what the term hacker comes from is that originally it was put on the late night workers on typewriters trying to finish up reports for the next day, they would 'hack' away at the keyboard. It eventually spread to the early punch tape programmers and the rest is history.

The media is always twisting ideas and words to their furthering. Keep in mind that the media tells half truths and whole lies...

"The media is always twisting ideas and words to their furthering. Keep in mind that the media tells half truths and whole lies... "

Yes, but when the media do that, and its you on the reciving end something has to be done.

When someone asks me what i do in my spare time and i reply "I hack programs", they think that i am admiting to doing something illegal. why? because the media tell half truths and lies.

The media cannot undo their past mistakes, but that does not excuse them from making the same ones tomorrow. The media oew real hakers an apology. But more than that, they owe them ordinarry respect.

In point of fact I believe that the preferred term for a person who breaks into things is a "cracker" because they crack codes etc... A "hacker" is someone who enjoys writing programs and figuring out problems.

Yeah, unforunatly the media (with there combined IQ that equals that of a PE teacher) can't firgure out the difference

...because normal people don't care, myself included. You guys sound like a bunch of feminists complaining everytime a man calls a woman a girl. Just relax and ask yourself "does it really matter?"

Codered: What if everyone called you "Chris Lullman"? Wouldn't you make an effort to correct them?

Thats my name, it's different in that it is a unique identifier referring to me and only me; hacker, programmer, skateboarder, etc are not. I don't call myself a hacker, I call myself a programmer, but even then it's not like thats how I introduce myself. Half the time when someone asks me what I do I just say I work with computers in order to avoid having to explain what programming is.

But 'Hacker' is a term referring to a unique sector of programming... 'hacking' is not just programming in general...

hacking has a number of definitions. It's associated with a deep-set curiosity into how any computer system works, which in addition to generally non-destructive "exploring" also goes into the programming aspect. If you're trying to get something done to see if it works, you're not necessarily going to try and do it *well* -- which is why if you "hack up" a program, it's usually messy and inefficient.
hacking has a wider definition which applies curiosity to any subject or any type of system, mundane or computer-related. e.g. "hacking campus" by picking locks and finding different ways to get places. intense focus on anything in particular.
MIT "hacks" are a synonym for pranks -- usually not terribly harmful in nature.
The media has used(misused) the word "hack" to the point where it has become synonymous with breaking and/or breaking into a system with malicious intent. Generally this had previously been known as 'cracking' as in breaking into, making workarounds for, or reverse engineering commercial software illegally. Rarely does the media make the distinction between the two words.
Since definitions of words depend on their general use and not necessarily what appears in the dictionary, if you use the word "hacker" most people are going to think of a delinquent. Whether or not this is right is not really a battle that can be fought or is worth fighting. you can write letters to the editor all your life and acheive little, or you can start broadening your vocabulary and turn it into a non-issue.

I generally don't correct people, although I use the correct terms in my own lexicon. I *do* correct people when I think they should know better or think the trouble of actually arguing with them is worth it; such as with major PITAs.

I doubt you'll ever correct this in a meaningful way; there's far too much inertia behind the "hacker means bad" definition. Rather use the words "hacker" and "cracker" in your own world as a tool of elitism; whatever puffs up your own self importance.

There's far bigger mis-interpetations and mis-understandings to correct to spend too much time on this particular one.

I correct my good friends the ones I hang around with most. I don't correct other people in my school.

An other thing that should get straightend out: French Fries aren't French. They are Belgian. Whoever came up with that name (and uses it) should get kicked in the nuts with a steel-tiped boot.
And Heineken isn't beer. Heineken is what you drink if you can't handle real beer and are still in the denial-phase.

RedX